A Heart to Teach - with Leïla
In the run up to the MBSR Teacher Training Intensive in April 2025, I have invited MBSR teachers that I respect and have worked with to share about their experience of teaching mindfulness. In this first conversation, I have an open and honest conversation with Leïla Parmentier about her journey to becoming a mindfulness teacher.
I have known Leïla Parmentier since 2019, and in those five years, we have co-taught several mindfulness programs together. On Friday, 22 November 2024, I took the chance to sit down and have a conversation with Leïla (over Zoom), about her journey as a mindfulness practitioner and teacher.
This conversation has been edited for length and clarity. For more from Carmen and Leila’s conversation, play the audio link found at the end of this article.
How did you come to practice mindfulness?
Leïla: In 2015 I experienced burnout at work, so I ended up having to quit my job. Around that time, I went back to France, my home country. During that period of soul searching and trying to find my grounding again, I came across a book on mindfulness meditation by Christophe André, a French Psychiatrist who incorporated the use of mindfulness practice into the hospital setting to help people prevent depression relapse.
After that, I also used a French mindfulness app. But at the time, my practice was still kind of on and off; it was still difficult to integrate it as part of my daily life. During my break, I heard about MBSR for the first time but did not attend the course.
Fast forward, I came back to Singapore and took on an even more stressful job. It didn't take very long before I started sliding again, feeling really overwhelmed. I noticed I was struggling at work despite having a meditation practice, so I realised my mindfulness practice was not yet strong enough. That's when I actually came across SMU’s MBSR program and decided to join.
How was MBSR different from using mindfulness apps for you?
Leïla: I guess I got a taste of mindfulness before joining MBSR, but my practice was not very deep, so I would see mindfulness as a way of grounding myself in the moment, kind of calming the mind. It didn't really deepen my awareness of my own experience, because that depends on how much practice you do to develop your sense of attention and self-awareness of your body sensations, emotions, everything.
The MBSR program really helped because the sessions and the practices are longer, but most importantly, because we are guided through week after week by the teacher, and we get to hear other participants’ experience and share our own through the inquiry process and small group discussions.
How did MBSR change your life?
Leïla: MBSR changed my life in many, many different ways. One of the first things I noticed was emotional regulation. Many people who know me now would be surprised to hear that I used to have anger management issues and was very short-tempered.
I could hold it together in the workplace, but - you can ask my husband who's been a very, very patient man - I would sometimes act out in public spaces. For example, I would throw a chair in a restaurant because my husband would say something that really triggered me, and then I would leave. Of course, I would feel ashamed and I come back ten minutes later to apologise. But it's just that in those angry moments the impulse to reach was too strong, and I couldn't see any other way.
Mindfulness completely changed that approach. I could feel the moment the emotion was arising in me, and identify the reason why and the thought process behind the anger I was feeling. By recognizing and understanding those patterns better, I could interrupt the reaction itself. That was a big shift for sure.
How did you decide to embark on the path of mindfulness teaching?
Leïla: It came naturally and pretty fast after my first MBSR training as a participant, because for me, the transformation was so huge. I talked about emotional regulation, but it was much more than that. It was also the awareness of my own thoughts. I had been struggling with anxiety and depression for a very long time, and my mindfulness practice really helped me to become aware of my thoughts and learn that I didn't have to integrate and believe all that they were telling me (thoughts are not facts). It really helped me transcend and transform.
I was lucky in the sense that the same year I took my MBSR training, the teacher training was taking place for the first time in Asia. So that got my interest straight away, because I was so moved by my own transformation, I wanted to share that transformative feeling with the rest of the world.
Although, I was a bit shy because teaching didn't necessarily come easy for me as I was introverted and not so comfortable in group settings. I had some self-doubts as to whether I would be a good teacher, but I was really interested in being able to share the transformative power of MBSR.
Another reason why I wanted to be a teacher was because I had been moved by the space that had been created by the teacher during my first MBSR course. I really felt like I could be myself and I belonged. That was something I didn't feel very often, as I always felt I had to put on a persona. I wanted to be able to recreate that beautiful experience of getting to connect with people authentically, and creating a safe space for everyone.
What were some of the challenges you faced when teaching mindfulness?
Leïla: I wasn't really comfortable in a group setting. What helped me was to focus on the teaching I was sharing, and not on myself. Realising it was not about me helped me to step aside, and believe in the practice. Also, knowing that we cannot force the teaching on anyone, and that the transformation has to come from the participants being willing and open, helped me to overcome my fear.
Mindfulness also helped me to be with my experience, including my nervousness and anxiety. It's a tolerance I developed, such that I could be nervous, but also excited and still willing to engage. There is usually some nervousness before the class starts, and then, as you get into the flow, the nervousness starts to decline, especially as you get more teaching experience.
Another thing that helped me overcome my anxiety was practicing on my own, and listening to a lot of different audio guides, not from a practitioner perspective, but from a listener perspective. I remember literally writing down, sentence by sentence, the script of a 45 min long meditation. Initially, I got inspiration from different teachers, and I took some sentences here and there. I eventually found my own voice and started guiding from my own experience. It's a process, and the more you practice, the easier it gets.
What sort of population speaks to you the most?
Leïla: One easy answer would be the workplace, because of my own experience with burnout. The workplace tends to be the home of chronic stress. I conduct an adapted curriculum, of around six weeks, with shorter sessions, each lasting about one hour and a half. The practices are also shorter because it's easier for employees to integrate them in their schedule, because teaching the full MBSR program in the workplace can be challenging.
Another population that speaks to me is people with chronic conditions, because I have been suffering from chronic pain for the past four years. This is one area where mindfulness has been extremely supportive to help me relate differently and with more openness, acceptance and spaciousness to my own pain and struggle.
What are your core beliefs around mindfulness teaching?
Leïla: Perhaps on a bit more personal note, I wasn't really comfortable in my own skin, even during my first MBSR course and when I started teaching. I was shy, anxious, hyper-sensitive and had low self-confidence. For a very long time, I felt that I didn't belong. So a core value I hold dear when I teach is a sense of inclusiveness for everyone. I want everyone to feel welcome, that they belong and can show up as their authentic self, regardless of any mental health challenges.
Do you have any differing views on how mindfulness is evolving or taught?
Leïla: One area that I have evolving thoughts about is around the concept of neuroscience, and all the benefits we have been able to show through research. It was what got me interested in mindfulness in the first place. But when we start to really go into the details in the literature, we see that there is a lot of controversy.
It can be a bit tricky to rely solely on research. I believe that there are a lot of things that you cannot prove based on science alone. I know that it can be a bit controversial to rely purely on neuroscience to explain the benefits of mindfulness. I believe in being open and curious enough to know that even though we might not be able to prove one particular benefit, it might not mean that it does not exist. There are things that are beyond science’s ability to prove in a controlled setting.
What is the greatest joy of being a mindfulness teacher?
Leïla: One of the greatest joys is to witness the evolution of the participants over the eight weeks. There is a great sense of fulfilment and joy when you feel that participants have been transformed by their own practice, and have obtained a deeper level of understanding of themselves, which then has a positive impact on their relationships with close ones and the world. That fulfilment is really something you feel because you've been contributing to that journey.
Also, there's the sense of coming back to authenticity and the sense of connection that you see between the participants. There are often friendships that develop throughout the eight weeks. And of course, there is also bonding with some participants that might connect with you after class, or share something a bit more personal. I feel a great sense of gratitude for the trust of the participants, and a sense of connection and common humanity that emerges from the classes I teach.
What are some challenges of teaching mindfulness?
Leïla: Sometimes there are misconceptions about mindfulness that people may have, they may feel that their mind is too busy to meditate, or other kinds of resistance. But I believe you can share from your own experience.
If I think about it, when I was in my early 20s I wouldn't have been open to this program at all, because I was in a different phase of my life, and I had to go through different experiences. It's only after I burnt out that my perception shifted, because I didn't have a choice. I had to change something to get better. You have to respect that everyone is on their own journey.
What I also find challenging when teaching MBSR is also the long, 8-week duration of the course. Because I suffer from a chronic condition, there will be sessions where I will be in pain, but would still have to show up, right? On top of that, often the classes are in the evenings, because that's when people are able to join. So that can be a challenge. But over the years, I’ve learned how I could support myself. For example, if I were teaching today, I would take time to rest as much as I can before class, even taking a nap.
Mindfulness has also helped me to be with whatever sensation I have, including pain. And sometimes it can be beautiful too, because I might be unwell at the beginning of the session, but as the session progresses there might be a sense of connection and joy developing in the class that eclipses my own pain.
If you had a magic wand, how would you wish for the world to change?
Leïla: I would make the world as a whole a more harmonious place, where people could be more open with one another, even though they may have different viewpoints, and could listen with openness, curiosity, non-judgment and compassion.
What is one unforgettable experience you have had teaching mindfulness?
Leïla: I can think about a very recent experience that moved me, when [Carmen and I] were co-teaching together, and one of the participants handed us a hand-written letter at the end of the program. The gesture, as well as the message inside, touched me. That was probably a point in time where I needed to be reminded to trust my inner light, and trust that I could make a difference in other people’s life.
Is it possible to teach mindfulness and have a full-time job at the same time?
Leïla: I will share a bit about my personal experience, but I am not saying that anyone else should do the same as I did.
For a few years, I actually did both. I continued my role in the banking industry, while teaching mindfulness. I'm not going to lie, it was challenging, especially in the beginning, because there is so much you need to learn about teaching mindfulness.
What happened to me is that ultimately I realised that my sense of fulfilment came from the teaching part, not from my banking job. Teaching became more important for me than my main job. When it became too much for me to continue doing both, to the point where I was burning out again, I decided to step out of my full-time job. Of course, this decision had a financial impact, and I'm lucky that my husband is supporting me.
It also depends how demanding your job is, and how much energy and space you have in your own life, including whether you have a family with kids. It’s possible to have two jobs, but it is challenging.
If Leïla’s story has piqued your interest in becoming an MBSR teacher, or if you are inspired by her story, do check out our Teaching Training Intensive in April, taught by myself and my colleague, Noriko, from UC San Diego’s Center for Mindfulness.
Audio File
From 00:00 Introduction to Leïla
From 02:05 Guided Meditation by Leïla
From 13:31 Conversation with Q&A
From 49:21 Closing Guided Meditation
(total 53:30 mins)
